Thanks for the fresh new offer that i hadn’t seen prior to
I don’t know if you had use of Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or otherwise not, whilst is written since the a reference to possess Americans which have colonial ancestors from Plantagenet lineage. He gets among their evidences one Joanna was new mother away from Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn gave the fresh attributes of Knighton and you may Norton castles from inside the Shropshire to help you Ralph Mortimer when he and Gwladus was hitched. It can had been unlawful getting Llewelyn to give Joanna’s property in order to a keen illegitimate daughter (or one who was not a child out of Joanna). The features of Norton and you may Knighton stayed from the Mortimer members of the family afterwards. The new price are, “That in case the Queen bring Belongings in order to men with an excellent woman off his kindred into the honest matrimony, additionally the woman dyeth rather than procedure, the person about Leaders instance should perhaps not wait getting his lives, because the lady caused the this new present.” Put another way, the latest functions might have reverted back again to the fresh top prior to they would-have-been provided to an infant who was simply maybe not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t have access to brand new Plantaganet Ancestry because of the Doug Richardson, but performed have access to the countless conversations connected with your and you will their theories with other genealogists (specific having your, but many and additionally facing). In my opinion, when i stated in my personal earlier in the day paper, one to just what shifts they for me(Joanna as being kissbrides.com company site the mother out of Gwladus), ‘s the transfer of one’s attributes you discuss in order to Ralph de Mortimer up on their ed a couple of their pupils ‘John’ and ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose that in the event the Gwladus had been the fresh new ded their college students for this reason. Regardless of the arguments amongst the eminent genealogists We explore above, there can be a standard opinion you to definitely Gwladus Ddu is going to be relatively identified as new daughter out-of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth from the Joanna, child (next legitimised) out of John, King out of The united kingdomt. I’d like to grab it possible opportunity to accept Sharon (during the a contact if you ask me) one Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian try by Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and so becoming blood sis to Gruffudd. We feet that it partially on a contemporary number utilized in ‘Regal and other Historical characters Illustrative of your own rule off Henry 111,’ edited of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. Towards pages 500-503 ‘s the transcript regarding exclusive letter old Marshall, Earl from Pembroke, in order to Queen Henry 111. In this letter, Marshall covers their siege of your own castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He lists people he found in the castle O’Realy when they surrendered, it incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre ainsi que matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I am informed this particular means i’ve here Gwenllian, child from Prince llywelyn, just who appears to be called ‘aunt regarding Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd are brand new illegitimate young buck regarding Llywelyn, it is taken one to ‘de- patre et matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd had been complete bloodstream sister and you can brother. Had Gwenllian already been Joanna’s child and that Queen Henry’s relative, certainly Marshall could have commented thereon reality? This incapacity out-of de Lacy’s wife due to the fact king’s relative, are drawn as close certain proof one Gwenllian wasn’t the brand new child of your king’s sibling Joanna.
This type of properties had been element of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their unique father King John
Ken: Thank you for one to mention of the Gwenllian. I’m certainly not an expert genealogist, but I really do a lot of look on my own lines. I think a number of the “pros” are incredibly envious and you may resentful of each and every most other (at least evidently way in a few of everything it post). Discover issues that we have been just not going to know with certainty in the members of this new MA as they didn’t continue public record information such as for example i carry out now, thus genealogists and you can historians need to use their utmost view into the sorting some thing out. Actually, public information are a fairly “new” layout – of many says here in the usa did not remain details away from births and you can deaths till the early 1900’s. We fall under several ancestry societies where I have had to establish eleven otherwise twelve generations, and you can trust in me it is not easy. And so i extremely see the challenge off comparing MA ancestors. (And the sad material is the fact that facts that are offered toward MA was of royalty and you can nobility – nothing after all into the prominent people).